[Time] Name | Message |
[07:14] ytang
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hi, anyone online?
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[07:33] sustrik
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hi
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[07:38] Steve-o
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good morning
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[08:05] mindful
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anybody in
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[08:08] sustrik
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yup
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[10:29] mikko
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good morning
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[10:29] mikko
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i made it
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[10:39] Skaag
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made what?
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[10:39] Skaag
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to work? :)
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[12:29] mikko
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Skaag: made it home for christmas
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[12:29] mikko
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Skaag: i was flying from london to finland
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[12:30] mikko
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took five days
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[12:31] Skaag
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wow!
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[12:31] Skaag
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why 5 days?!
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[12:31] Skaag
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I thought 5 days is with a ferry
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[12:31] Skaag
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London to Stockholm, then Stockholm to Helsinki
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[12:32] Skaag
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brb
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[12:34] mikko
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Skaag: tons of canceled flights
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[12:34] mikko
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i was supposed to fly last friday and finally managed to fly tuesday evening
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[12:35] Skaag
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sounds like a nightmare
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[12:40] Skaag
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back.
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[12:40] Skaag
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I really should bring my bouncer into freenode as well...
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[15:55] dos000
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howdy
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[15:55] dos000
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can someone tell me if concurrent lock free circular buffers are used in zmq ? i read something recently that was talking about the perf improvements
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[16:43] cremes
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dos000: 0mq definitely uses lock-free algos; i don't know if they protect a circular buffer though
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[16:43] cremes
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the code answers all!
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[16:43] Skaag
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lol
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[16:43] Skaag
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*snicker* typical developer answer ;)
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[16:44] Skaag
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what documentation? look at the comments in the code... ;)
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[16:44] cremes
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yep ;)
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[16:45] cremes
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docs usually don't cover those kinds of implementation details anyway
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[16:45] cremes
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they are intended to remain hidden under the covers; anyone using the api shouldn't care what the algo is
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[16:46] cremes
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since dos000 was asking specifically about it, the only way to get the real answer is to 1) ask sustrik
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[16:46] cremes
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or 2) check the source
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[16:46] dos000
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ah!
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[16:48] dos000
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i was also looking for some experience in other libs offering lock-free circular buffers
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[16:48] dos000
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this stuff seems like black magic
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[16:48] cremes
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yes, very dark :)
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[16:49] dos000
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no one is doing it or talking about their implementation
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[16:49] dos000
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and no central de facto to go fo this .. evryone rolls their own
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[16:49] cremes
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true
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[16:49] cremes
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the main idea behind lock-free is to leverage a platform's atomic compare-and-swap operation
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[16:50] cremes
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if your hw supports that, a lock-free impl is fairly "easy" to create
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[16:50] dos000
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yes .. and i am hoping (please) support it
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[16:50] cremes
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the hard part then becomes dealing with cache coherency and its perf implications
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[16:50] dos000
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i am hoping 0mq has it for sparc and x86 and/or x86_64
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[16:51] cremes
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it definitely has it for x86 and x86_64; not sure on sparc
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[16:51] dos000
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cremes: zmq does not deal with threads correct ? i was thinking a way of "forcing" a thread to run on a particular core
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[16:52] cremes
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dos000: not correct; you can force cpu affinity for sockets
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[16:52] cremes
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check the setsockopt docs on the web site
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[16:52] dos000
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ok
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[16:52] cremes
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(i haven't used it myself otherwise i'd be more helpful...)
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[16:52] dos000
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here is the (interesting) talk http://www.infoq.com/presentations/LMAX
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[16:53] cremes
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ah, i just saw that this morning! it's in my queue to watch a bit later
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[16:53] dos000
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ah!
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[16:53] cremes
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i do trading stuff but i'm not in the super high-freq space
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[16:54] dos000
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they mention someway of sending a packet straight to user space bypassing (virtually) the kernel ... but they dont explain how or which os supports it
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[16:55] dos000
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very interestng talk indeed
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[16:55] dos000
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cremes, which blog/sites do you follow for this types of talks ?
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[16:56] dos000
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how did you stumble on the LMAX presentation ?
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[16:56] cremes
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i subscribe to reddit rss feeds as well as the infoq rss stuff
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[16:58] dos000
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the solution they propose starts from 36:00 if you want to skip through .. a picture is worth a thousand words
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[16:58] cremes
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cool, thanks for the heads up
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[16:58] cremes
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are you involved with trading systems or similar?
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[16:58] dos000
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yes very similar .. payment systems
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[16:59] Skaag
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dos000: don't the boost libraries do this type of locking?
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[17:00] dos000
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i asked already in #C++ it might be only circular buffers .. not lock free implementations
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[17:01] Skaag
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weren't all such kernel modules that broke the core -> user space membrane been kicked from the kernel project by Linus?
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[17:02] dos000
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no idea!
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[17:02] Skaag
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they are doing this without a custom kernel module?
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[17:02] dos000
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not sure how .. its just a blimp in the video
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[17:40] dos000
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ok ... now i found this http://www.puppetmastertrading.com/blog/2010/02/16/lock-free/
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[17:52] mikko
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dos000: http://www.zeromq.org/blog:multithreading-magic
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[17:52] mikko
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this might be interesting read as well
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[17:52] mikko
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not directly related
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[17:58] dos000
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fastflow seems to be up there with 0mq .. lots of similarities
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[18:03] cremes
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dos000: they diss ruby in that blog so now i need to go on a rant! ;)
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[18:08] Skaag
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lol!!!
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[18:08] dos000
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lol
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[20:11] Skaag
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the developer I work with tells me he managed to publish and consume a message on a topic with rabbitmq, but it's still unclear to him how to cluster the thing ;)
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[21:41] mikko
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Skaag: you can publish and consume a message with zeromq within minutes
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[21:41] mikko
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:)
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[21:42] Skaag
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I know
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[21:42] Skaag
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anyway, what I am thinking to answer him, is that Zookeeper will be in charge of managing a list of IP addresses of available hosts
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[21:42] Skaag
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and he will just connect to all of them and subscribe
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[21:43] mikko
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did you test zookeeper
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[21:43] mikko
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?
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[21:43] Skaag
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not yet
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[21:43] Skaag
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I'm installing it as we speak
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[21:44] mikko
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the only annoyance i found was that zookeeper didnt have rhel packaging
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[21:44] mikko
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i think i made spec-files back then
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[21:45] Skaag
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well I am running on Ubuntu myself. I can't stand rhel.
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[21:45] Skaag
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I used to be very redhat oriented
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[21:45] Skaag
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but once I was exposed to debian, and then to ubuntu, I knew my destiny was sealed ;)
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[21:46] mikko
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i use debian on my own stuff
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[21:46] Skaag
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I know it may sound stupid, and rhel is considered a kind of 'standard'.
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[21:46] mikko
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but many companies i work with prefer rhel
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[21:46] dos000
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i hate rhel .. anything non debian (based) for that matter
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[21:47] dos000
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apt-get is sweet
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[21:47] mikko
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rhel packaging is far more pleasant to make imho
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[21:47] mikko
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compared to debs
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[21:47] Skaag
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i disagree
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[21:47] dos000
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to use however isa different thing
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[21:47] Skaag
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I make a deb in 3 minutes.
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[21:47] Skaag
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less...
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[21:48] Skaag
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well I have a ready skeleton, from the first 5 minutes I spent trying to make a deb
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[21:48] dos000
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there are some utilities that will create the pkgs for you .. based on make && make installl
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[21:48] Skaag
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so now to make a deb is a matter of copying the files to the right places, specifying dependencies, and perhaps adding some install / uninstall scripts...
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[21:48] Skaag
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not to mention how easy it is to create a repository
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[21:49] mikko
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Skaag: it's easy for yum as well
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[21:49] mikko
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createrepo /path/to
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[21:49] dos000
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i did not find companies that do support for debian so far
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[21:50] dos000
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something that passes the CEO test
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[21:51] Skaag
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the CEO test is different in every company...
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[21:51] Skaag
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in some, the money talks
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[21:51] Skaag
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in some others, it's how large the support company is
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[21:51] Skaag
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and in some, it's how technically knowledgable :-)
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[21:51] dos000
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in some companies the CEO (and evryone around him) is dumb !
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[21:51] dos000
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thats the problem
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[21:51] Skaag
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and here in Russia! It's about how much money you slip into the CEO's pocket, behind the back of the board of directors...! ;-)
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[21:52] dos000
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heh!
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[21:53] mikko
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im not far from russia atm
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[21:53] mikko
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a few hundred km if even that
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[21:54] mikko
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Skaag: https://github.com/mkoppanen/myservices
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[21:54] mikko
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it's not very well tested but should give some ideas for zk integration
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[21:54] Skaag
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mikko: I read your page already ;)
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[21:54] Skaag
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ah, that's another page
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[21:54] Skaag
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sorry
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[21:54] Skaag
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Where in Finland are you?
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[21:55] Skaag
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I took the bus from Helsinki to St. Petersburg, just 6 month ago :-)
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[21:55] Skaag
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17 euros and I was in Russia!
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[21:56] mikko
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they got a new fast train as well
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[21:56] mikko
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three hours to st petersburg from helsinki
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[21:56] Skaag
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amazing
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[21:56] dos000
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lets say i had 3 packets coming from 3 different sources ... and all packets are sequentially numbered.
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[21:56] Skaag
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but I doubt in such a weather condition?
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[21:57] dos000
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what would you do to wait for three packets with the same seq numbers ?
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[21:57] mikko
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Skaag: even in such conditions
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[21:57] Skaag
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amazing!
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[21:57] mikko
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things dont stop in .fi even when its cold
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[21:57] Skaag
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I know
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[21:57] Skaag
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but on the russian side...?
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[21:57] Skaag
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:-)
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[21:57] Skaag
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I lived in Helsinki for 5 month
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[21:57] Skaag
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I absolutely love Finland
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[21:57] Skaag
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awesome country.
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[21:57] Skaag
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I loved it since childhood.
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[21:58] Skaag
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and recently, after living there, I understood why.
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[21:58] mikko
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i dislike the winter. thats why i moved to london
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[21:59] Skaag
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maybe because you grew up with it.
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[21:59] Skaag
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this is my second REAL winter here in Moscow, first time in Helsinki, where it was almost constantly under -10Ëc
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[21:59] Skaag
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and I don't mind it much.
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[22:01] mikko
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im in middle .fi now
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[22:01] mikko
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-30 outside
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[22:02] mikko
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does your company operate in russia?
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[22:03] Skaag
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yes
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[22:03] Skaag
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among other places
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[22:03] Skaag
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middle = near Sodankylä?
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[22:03] mikko
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thats the northest place in finland
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[22:04] mikko
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close to the sea up north
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[22:04] mikko
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pretty close to Jyväskylä
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[22:05] Skaag
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cool
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[22:05] Skaag
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I have a good friend in Mikkeli
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[22:07] Skaag
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I actually passed through Jyväskylä one time
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[22:09] Skaag
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they just prepared Olutglögi
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[22:09] Skaag
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http://mika.letonsaari.net/foobar/olutglögi/14.jpg
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[22:10] Skaag
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some part of me is glad I can not taste it.
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[22:11] mikko
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warm beer and spices?
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[22:11] Skaag
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actually it looks interesting
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[22:13] Skaag
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yes
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[22:59] ryandmonk
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hello... curious if someone can help me out with at pyzmq issue
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[22:59] ryandmonk
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i followed the instructions on site
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[22:59] ryandmonk
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and ran python setup.py install
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[23:00] ryandmonk
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its spits out some stuff.. but eventually gives an error saying "zmq/core/constants.c:1: error: #error Do not use this file, it is the result of a failed Cython compilation."
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[23:01] ryandmonk
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im on ubuntu 10.10.. using zeromq-2.0.10
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[23:10] cremes
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ryandmonk: try searching the ML archives; i have seen discussions on python binding problems there before
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[23:11] cremes
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perhaps the solution is buried in the archives
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[23:12] ryandmonk
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where are these archives?
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[23:13] Skaag
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cool - I have a working 16 node zookeeper cluster :)
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[23:18] ryandmonk
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found em.. thanks cremes!
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