ZeroMq IRC Log

Friday March 4, 2011

[Time] Name	Message
[01:42] yrashk	looks like ezmq got much more stable now
[01:43] yrashk	and thanks to evaxsoftware it doesn't have a thread per socket design anymore
[01:43] yrashk	we're multiplexing now :)
[02:16] catlee	hello
[02:16] catlee	how does zeromq compare to something like rabbitmq?
[03:05] datuanmac	hi
[03:06] datuanmac	I'm trying integrate zmq to my project in Visual c++ version 6 but it's conflic version winsock2 ?
[03:16] datuanmac	What solution for visual 6 ?
[04:43] ctrlc-root	hello, im trying to run the hello world client/server example from the website on windows with vs2010 and the server isnt running right
[04:43] ctrlc-root	it starts but then it fails with an unhandled exception, error number 156384763
[04:44] ctrlc-root	"The operation cannot be completed because the socket is not in the right state"
[04:44] ctrlc-root	this is on the socket.recv() call in teh c++ api
[04:44] ctrlc-root	anyone know what could be going wrong?
[06:34] guido_g	morning all
[06:45] eyecue	tgif
[07:03] guido_g	hehehe
[07:07] guido_g	http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-LkXUSknbalU/TXB1HTDJs_I/AAAAAAAB_gw/q8Njub9H2e4/s1600/ironic_sign_situations_01.jpg <- see what bad naming can do
[07:07] guido_g	and now up for mor mdp fun
[07:09] eyecue	that looks like its from the brisbane flood in australia
[07:10] eyecue	guido_g; there was also this one during the same event :) http://resources1.news.com.au/images/2011/01/13/1225987/039817-suncorp-stadium.jpg
[07:11] guido_g	hehe
[07:11] guido_g	this is the humor one would expect
[07:11] eyecue	:]
[07:11] eyecue	from aussies? yeh :)
[07:12] guido_g	must be hard
[07:13] guido_g	living close to water for the larger part of my life, but luckily never got flooded
[07:14] jsimmons	i live on a hill, handy.
[07:14] guido_g	once i saw a flood mark 1m above a telephoneboth in a small coastal town i lived
[07:14] guido_g	coward! :)
[07:15] jsimmons	im not going to slum it with the plebs down near the waterline :D
[07:17] eyecue	guido_g; http://ian.umces.edu/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/ipswich_in_flood.jpg :)
[07:17] eyecue	we do everything bigger and better in .au
[07:17] guido_g	seems so
[07:18] eyecue	http://images.brisbanetimes.com.au/2011/01/12/2130176/420ipswich-420x0.jpg <-- shopping centre :)
[07:18] eyecue	i think they got upwards of 15m in some parts there
[07:34] jsimmons	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdOwFTo4Q3I
[07:34] jsimmons	weirdo queenslanders
[08:14] eyecue	:]
[09:13] mikko	good morning
[09:18] Steve-o	top of the morning to you mikko
[09:20] mikko	i don't fully understand this mingw32 vs mingw64 business
[09:20] Steve-o	mingw64 is just an updated fork of mingw32
[09:21] Steve-o	with 32-bit and 64-bit compilers
[09:21] Steve-o	some rfit causing the split
[09:21] Steve-o	rfit
[09:21] Steve-o	rift
[09:21] Steve-o	third time lucky
[09:22] mikko	can i cross-compile 64bit binaries on 32bit machine with it?
[09:22] mikko	looks like my own win7 build machine is offline
[09:22] Steve-o	I guess you should be able to
[09:22] mikko	probably installed updates again sigh
[09:22] Steve-o	SP1
[09:23] Steve-o	haven't installed it myself,
[09:23] Steve-o	looking for api changes, cannot find any docs but just found some notes on getaddrinfo() today
[09:24] Steve-o	you can tag interfaces to be excluded from the results using netsh
[09:24] mikko	confusing situation
[09:25] mikko	are mingw32 dlls compatible with mingw64 binaries?
[09:25] Steve-o	are 32-bit and 64-dlls interchangable, no
[09:25] mikko	whats about 32bit ones?
[09:26] Steve-o	via wow64 you can run 32-bit windows winsock apps on 64-bit windows
[09:26] Steve-o	there are api changes that hide the details
[09:26] Steve-o	and new apis like getnativesysteminfo() just for wow64
[09:27] Steve-o	wow = windows on windows
[09:34] Steve-o	but it's all transparent to the user
[09:36] mikko	so building 32bit target with mingw64 doesn't really provide value over 32bit mingw32?
[09:36] mikko	from user's point of view
[09:44] Steve-o	weeee, Google Chrome's hardware acceleration is definitely not stable yet :/
[09:55] Steve-o	downside with mingw is that it brings in a lot of compiler dependencies and debugging is ass
[09:56] mikko	one of the downsides*
[10:03] Steve-o	more annoying is that it is slower than msvc
[10:05] Steve-o	I guess mingw-w64 is more updated and closer to gcc trunk and should be faster
[10:09] Steve-o	Should try ICC on Windows, haven't done that yet
[10:10] Steve-o	any numbers for 0mq and tcp?
[10:10] mikko	5 - 6.5 million 1 byte messages over localhost
[10:10] mikko	per sec
[10:10] mikko	but it's questionable how accurate that is
[10:11] Steve-o	that was msvc on numa?
[10:12] mikko	oh you mean windows
[10:12] mikko	no numbers on windows
[10:14] Steve-o	ah ok
[10:16] Steve-o	was thinking of testing windows IPC after this release
[10:17] Steve-o	be easy to get something working and then see how the numbers get worse or better
[10:18] Steve-o	I sent an idea for broadcast IPC to sustrik before as an expansion on the idea, but I don't have numa boxes to performance test
[10:20] mikko	i think Guthur is working for named pipes for windows
[10:20] mikko	to get ipc:// working
[11:24] Guthur	mikko: 'working' is a little strong at the moment
[11:24] Guthur	Initial research completed at the moment
[11:25] Guthur	need to develop a strategy for integration
[11:26] Guthur	On my agenda is talk to sustrik more about what an abstraction of the name pipes using IOCP would need to emulate the current functionality provided and required by the polling methods on POSIX
[11:27] Guthur	the problem is that plain IOCP is only a completion notification system
[11:27] Guthur	and polling on POSIX provides more than that
[11:41] yrashk	hey
[11:41] yrashk	any idea on how we can check whether there are any unclosed sockets prior to zmq_term?
[11:42] yrashk	we need to avoid blocking Erlang's VM in all possible situations
[11:42] yrashk	so we'd rather not call zmq_term if we know that it will block
[12:10] guido_g	no, that i know of
[12:10] guido_g	this kind of information is not ment for us mere mortals
[12:49] private_meta	Isn't there a way to tell zmq_term to terminate all sockets without waiting for finished messages? I thought I read something about it
[12:50] guido_g	per socket
[12:50] guido_g	via LINGER option
[12:50] guido_g	but the sockets still have to be closed first
[12:50] yrashk	well, we've got around this
[12:51] yrashk	we now terminate context in a separate thread that we have anyway
[14:32] sejo	hey all what are the pitfals for speed? what is the n* of messages i can send/receive with zeromq?
[14:35] guido_g	depends on hardware and message size, so the question is futile
[14:35] guido_g	btw, there are benchmarks in the Ã¸mq git, use them
[14:36] sejo	ach I will thx!
[14:38] sejo	hmm with my code I only get 1/sec
[14:38] sejo	that is way to few :p
[14:39] sejo	but I use it from python
[14:39] guido_g	even w/ serialization i get ~4k messages per second using python
[14:41] sejo	please accept my apologies... still had time.sleep(1) in my code :/
[14:41] sejo	I'm a moron
[14:41] guido_g	ok, we'll take that for granted
[14:42] guido_g	:)
[15:02] sejo	guido_g: apparently you should :p
[15:02] sejo	now get approx 30/s (with saving to chouchdb)
[15:02] sejo	so not that bad
[15:03] guido_g	slow db?
[15:13] sejo	guido_g: no slow way of doing it, I save document after document and not bulk save... that would improve a lot. Also python is owesome to write in but not _the_ fastest language there is
[15:14] sejo	if we get funding and have more time I might redo in C, right now... python it is :p
[15:14] guido_g	depends on how you do things
[15:14] guido_g	usually python is fast enough
[15:16] guido_g	ok, time for a break
[15:16] guido_g	laters!
[16:57] lt_schmidt_jr	A couple of quesitons for the experts
[16:58] lt_schmidt_jr	If a receiving socket goes unpolled can I detect if HWM has overflowed?
[17:03] mikko	lt_schmidt_jr: yes
[17:03] mikko	lt_schmidt_jr: non-blocking send should return EAGAIN assuming it's a socket that would block
[17:05] lt_schmidt_jr	mikko: I am using pub sub, are you saying the pub socket will return eagain if a subscriber goes unpolled?
[17:05] mikko	no, it would drop the message
[17:05] mikko	you can't really detect HWM overflow with pub socket
[17:05] mikko	as the messages are simply dropped
[17:06] mikko	unless you poll
[17:06] mikko	i am not sure whether poll indicates that it's writable
[17:06] lt_schmidt_jr	interesting
[17:07] lt_schmidt_jr	I thought I could have a sub-socket queue
[17:07] lt_schmidt_jr	build up and it could overflow there
[17:07] lt_schmidt_jr	as opposed on the publisher
[17:07] mikko	i'm not really 100% how hwm interacts with pub-sub
[17:08] mikko	let me check
[17:08] lt_schmidt_jr	I am using inproc btw
[17:08] mikko	http://api.zeromq.org/master:zmq-socket
[17:09] mikko	if you look at the ZMQ_HWM option action under SUB
[17:09] mikko	not applicable
[17:10] lt_schmidt_jr	I see
[17:10] lt_schmidt_jr	darn
[17:14] lt_schmidt_jr	I wanted to pause socket polling on behalf of disconnected clients, but I guess I will have to build my own queue
[17:14] lt_schmidt_jr	instead of relying on socket to queue
[17:21] lt_schmidt_jr	mikko: thanks for the RTFM :) I forgot about that part of the doc having been studying the Guide
[17:22] mikko	no problem
[18:37] Phantom	hello all
[18:37] Phantom	has anyone got the perl binding to work ? it seems...nonfunctional.
[18:41] Phantom	'ello. Is anyone out there ?
[18:45] andrewvc	cremes: wish I had a better answer re: ffi as a dependency
[18:45] andrewvc	the alternate gems thing doesn't really solve it
[18:45] cremes	andrewvc: yeah, i hate that solution
[18:46] cremes	i'm going to open up a feature request with the rubygems project
[18:46] andrewvc	I was thinking actually, it'd be best if maybe the FFI project just did nothing if it was required in a non MRI ruby
[18:46] andrewvc	yeah, that's the right long term solution
[18:46] cremes	it's not the 'require' step that breaks things
[18:46] cremes	it's the installation of the gem
[18:46] cremes	it tries to install the 'ffi' gem and blows up
[18:46] andrewvc	oh, what happens if you try and install in on rbx or jruby
[18:47] cremes	kaboom
[18:47] andrewvc	oh, because it tries to compile the ext
[18:47] andrewvc	damn
[18:47] cremes	right
[18:48] andrewvc	yeah, RUBY_PLATFORM isn't enough, rubygems needs RUBY_ENGINE
[18:48] andrewvc	is I'm guessing what you're going to request
[18:48] andrewvc	it's funny, because the alternate gem thing works fine for jruby, just not rbx
[18:53] mikko	pieter_hintjens: there?
[19:47] mathijs	Hi all, is zmq_poll edge-triggered? in other words: if I poll on 10 items, and 3 of them have events waiting, but I only handle 1 and poll again, will the second poll call still return the other 2, or those be forgotten, letting poll wait for new events?
[20:11] mikko	mathijs: it is
[20:12] Guthur	http://api.zeromq.org/master:zmq-poll
[20:12] Guthur	oh mikko beat me to it
[20:12] mathijs	mikko: so I should take care to handle all events that occured before re-polling?
[20:12] mikko	yes
[20:12] Guthur	it says level triggered there
[20:12] mikko	that sounds wrong
[20:13] mathijs	ah, I was reading that page for some minutes but couldn't find it :P
[20:13] mikko	i'm almost certain that the manual page there is wrong
[20:14] mathijs	level triggered is wrong I think. level triggered normally means that the trigger keeps popping up as long as the "level"/state is positive
[20:15] mikko	see this one from el sustrik: http://www.mail-archive.com/zeromq-dev@lists.zeromq.org/msg01620.html
[20:15] mikko	"Say there are two messages available. You read one of them. If you wait
[20:15] mikko	for the fd at this point it may never unblock, because there's still one
[20:15] mikko	message to read. Command saying "there are new messages available" is
[20:15] mikko	sent to your thread only if you've read all the messages before. You can
[20:15] mikko	think of it as edge-triggered polling"
[20:15] mikko	longer paste than i expected
[20:15] Guthur	is that maybe specific to FD though?
[20:16] Guthur	i.e. not a zmq socket
[20:16] mikko	it's possible
[20:16] mikko	i was always under the impression that zmq socket is edge-triggered as well
[20:16] mathijs	yeah, I knew that behavior is like that for FD, it was stated that was truely edge-triggered.
[20:17] mikko	double check with sustrik or pieter_hintjens when either one of them is back
[20:17] mathijs	well I'll do some quick tests, not too hard to find out
[20:18] Guthur	my quick test seems to confirm its level
[20:18] mikko	i guess if you need edge triggered you can always get the ZMQ_FD and poll on that
[20:20] mathijs	no, I don't really need either of them, just want to make sure my expectations are right and I don't accidentally abuse some loophole
[20:20] mikko	level triggered certainly makes it easier
[20:21] mathijs	indeed, but not as die-hard :P
[22:30] lt_schmidt_jr	What happens when a HWM is reached by a publisher in pub/sub?
[22:30] lt_schmidt_jr	are the new messages dropped or the old ones are dequeud?
[22:33] Guthur	new messages dropped
[22:33] lt_schmidt_jr	Guthur: thanks
[22:33] Guthur	you're welcome
[22:42] yrashk	so, what would be the best way to add a library to http://www.zeromq.org/bindings:erlang ?
[22:55] Guthur	yrashk, you mean add another erlang binding?
[22:56] yrashk	yep
[23:00] Guthur	is it publicly available
[23:00] Guthur	tbh I'm not sure if there is a procedure
[23:00] Guthur	pieter_hintjens, ping
[23:08] kdj	I am having some trouble getting pyzmq installed on Ubuntu...
[23:12] kdj	I follow the steps in the docs, and it works fine, but if I log out and back in, I seem to lose some env variable
[23:20] yrashk	Guthur: new binding? yes, it is
[23:23] Guthur	yrashk, I'm not sure if there is a process, best to mention it on the mailing list then pieter or martin can see it
[23:23] Guthur	I'd imagine you just add a description and links to that page
[23:24] yrashk	well they are aware of it
[23:24] yrashk	anyway, will take care of this later